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| − | > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- | + | > |
| − | > Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 15:37:50 -0800
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| − | > From: Declan McCullagh <keunwoo@gmail.com>
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| − | > Subject: [Politech] Replies to trend of cops using GPS trackers without
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| − | > warrants [priv]
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| − | >
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| − | > -------- Original Message --------
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| − | > Subject: Re: [Politech] Nifty surveillance trend: Cops GPS track cars
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| − | > without warrants [priv]
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| − | > Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 11:45:07 -0500
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| − | > From: wes_morgan@us.ibm.com
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| − | > To: Declan McCullagh <declan@well.com>
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| − | >
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| − | > > http://news.com.com/2100-1028_3-5533560.html
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| − | > >
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| − | > > By Declan McCullagh
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| − | > > January 12, 2005, 11:00 AM PST
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| − | > >
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| − | > > When Robert Moran drove back to his law offices in Rome, N.Y.,
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| − | > after > a plane trip to Arizona in July 2003, he had no idea that a
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| − | > silent > stowaway was aboard his vehicle: a secret GPS bug implanted
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| − | > without > a court order by state police. >
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| − | > > Police suspected the lawyer of ties to a local Hells Angels
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| − | > > Motorcycle Club that was selling methamphetamine, and they feared
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| − | > > undercover officers would not be able to infiltrate the notoriously
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| − | > > tight-knit group, which has hazing rituals that involve criminal
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| − | > > activities. So investigators stuck a GPS, or Global Positioning
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| − | > > System, bug on Moran's car, watched his movements, and arrested him
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| − | > > on drug charges a month
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| − | >
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| − | > later.
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| − | >
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| − | > > A federal judge in New York ruled last week that police did not
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| − | > need > court authorization when tracking Moran from afar. "Law
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| − | > enforcement > personnel could have conducted a visual surveillance of
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| − | > the vehicle > as it traveled on the public highways," U.S. District
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| − | > Judge David > Hurd wrote. "Moran had no expectation of privacy in the
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| − | > whereabouts > of his vehicle on a public roadway."
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| − | >
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| − | > Interesting - and it raises an scary question of scale.
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| − | >
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| − | > Does this mean, then, that the LEAs can use GPS bugs indiscriminately?
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| − | > This would obviously scale extremely well for the LEAs; one officer
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| − | > could attach bugs to X vehicles (or X dozen, or X hundred, for that
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| − | > matter) and track them all automatically. Of course, this also
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| − | > supports "after the fact" surveillance, in that one need merely peruse
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| − | > the GPS logs for the last X days/weeks to retrace the targets'
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| − | > travels. Probable cause will HAVE to come into play at some point,
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| − | > but--with the ruling in this case asserting that no expectation of
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| − | > privacy exists when behind the wheel--at what point will the
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| − | > check-and-balance kick in?
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| − | >
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| − | > --Wes
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| − | >
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| − | >
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| − | >
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| − | >
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| − | > -------- Original Message --------
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| − | > Subject: Re: [Politech] Nifty surveillance trend: Cops GPS track cars
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| − | > without warrants [priv]
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| − | > Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 16:46:01 +1100
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| − | > From: Truckle The Uncivil <truckle.the.uncivil@gmail.com>
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| − | > Reply-To: Truckle The Uncivil <truckle.the.uncivil@gmail.com>
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| − | > To: Declan McCullagh <declan@well.com>
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| − | > References: <41E6022B.1010006@well.com>
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| − | >
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| − | > On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 00:07:55 -0500, Declan McCullagh <declan@well.com>
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| − | >
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| − | > wrote:
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| − | > > http://news.com.com/2100-1028_3-5533560.html
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| − | > >
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| − | > > By Declan McCullagh
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| − | > > January 12, 2005, 11:00 AM PST
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| − | > >
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| − | > > When Robert Moran drove back to his law offices in Rome, N.Y.,
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| − | > after > a plane trip to Arizona in July 2003, he had no idea that a
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| − | > silent > stowaway was aboard his vehicle: a secret GPS bug implanted
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| − | > without > a court order by state police.
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| − | >
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| − | > Couldn't this guy lay a charge of "theft of resources" (ie. petrol
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| − | > cost) in the same wayt that the cost of a miniscule amount of
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| − | > electricity has been held against computer users/intruders ?
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| − | >
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| − | > [I doubt it, given that the U.S. Supreme Court has upheld police use
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| − | > of "bumper beepers" before. --Declan]
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| − | >
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| − | > --
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| − | > Truckle The Uncivil, Nullus Anxietas Sanguinae
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| − | >
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| − | > But remember, please, the Law by which we live,
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| − | > We are not built to comprehend a lie.
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| − | > We can neither love nor pity, nor forgive,
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| − | > If you make a slip in handling us you die!
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| − | > --The Secret of the Machines-- Rudyard Kipling
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| − | >
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| − | >
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| − | >
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| − | >
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| − | > -------- Original Message --------
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| − | > Subject: Nifty surveillance trend: Cops GPS track cars without
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| − | > warrants
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| − | > Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 14:51:50 -0600
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| − | > From: Parks <parks@uhibpd.phys.uh.edu>
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| − | > To: HCLP@yahoogroups.com, declan@well.com
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| − | >
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| − | > TYRANNY ALERT:
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| − | > >A federal judge in New York ruled last week that police did not need
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| − | > >court authorization when tracking Moran from afar. "Law enforcement
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| − | > >personnel could have conducted a visual surveillance of the vehicle
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| − | > >as it traveled on the public highways," U.S. District Judge David
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| − | > >Hurd wrote. "Moran had no expectation of privacy in the whereabouts
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| − | > >of his vehicle on a public roadway."
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| − | >
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| − | > These are tyrants in black robes.
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| − | >
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| − | > We have a TEXAS law that you can't record conversations unless at
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| − | > least YOU are a participant without warrant. Many states are even
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| − | > more strict. We could talk to anyone in public, but we don't expect
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| − | > that our every conversation would be recorded without a court order,
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| − | > why any less than we expect that the government shouldn't
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| − | > monitor/record our movements or take our picture with telephoto
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| − | > cameras or track our license plates from afar? Just to show you that
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| − | > people DO believe they have privacy in their car, it would be
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| − | > interesting to see how many people are picking their noses or doing
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| − | > other impolite acts in a car thinking they are in private? This
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| − | > government definition of privacy is an affront to our expectation of
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| − | > privacy FROM THE GOVERNMENT, morons in black robes notwithstanding.
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| − | >
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| − | > Intelligent Transportation System (ITS) freeway tracking cameras HAVE
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| − | > the ability to track everyone everywhere on the highway. Show you
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| − | > care: shoot the bird at Big Brother.
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| − | >
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| − | >
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| − | > _______________________________________________
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| − | > Politech mailing list
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| − | > Archived at http://www.politechbot.com/
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| − | > Moderated by Declan McCullagh (http://www.mccullagh.org/)
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| − | > _______________________________________________
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| − | > Soctech mailing list
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| − | > Soctech@cs.washington.edu
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| − | > https://mailman.cs.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/soctech
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